Posted by Jer at 5:10 PM on
Saturday, May 19, 2007
The Lovely Wife and I finally went to see Spider-man 3 this afternoon. We had intended to see it opening weekend, but illness intervened. Then last weekend was, of course, Mother's Day -- not a Spider-man movie weekend. All in all, it was a fun movie, and better than I had expected given the level of 'meh' towards the movie that has been floating around the Internets since its release. Discussion and spoilers below the fold...
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The movie is really plot-heavy -- three villains, two "love interests" (and two "love triangles" to go along with them), three fairly massive setpiece battles -- there's a lot of stuff going on in this movie and it pretty much doesn't slow down from the beginning of the movie to the end. There are a few quiet moments such as Peter and Mary Jane in the trees watching a meteor shower, or Mary Jane and Harry Osborne cooking, but even the quiet moments are plot-advancement moments -- the movie doesn't really slow down enough to do many pure character building moments.
This is probably the movie's biggest flaw -- it's pretty clear that there's an underlying soap opera story that Raimi wants to tell about Peter and Mary Jane set against the backdrop of Peter's larger responsibilities as Spider-man -- a classic setup right from the source material. But because of the scale of the movie, the soap opera moments get rushed along a bit too quickly. We get the big moments of their relationship struggles, but not the subtle ones. The relationship has to be drawn large and broad to quickly telegraph the problems to the audience to get onto the action, which makes the relationship seem more shallow than it should - almost a caricature of a relationship. It feels like if it had been given some more depth, the relationship failure could have been more natural, rather than the sudden shift that Raimi had to give it to make the movie flow.
Additionally, Raimi clearly wanted to wrap up the Spider-man/Green Goblin story that he's been working on since the first movie. This part felt rushed too -- Harry moving from angry man on a vengeance kick to subtle manipulator wanting to undermine Peter's happiness to ally all felt too chaotic. I can tell that Raimi wanted a big setpiece battle between the new Goblin and Spider-man, and I suspect that he wanted to get Harry and Peter back to being "friends" so that Harry could betray him. And, I suppose that Raimi also wanted a big battle at the front of the movie to get the action rolling. But it still felt off to me -- like Harry should have gone for the subtle manipulator angle first, then moved onto the angry vengeance kick afterward.
Speaking of Harry, there is one element of the movie that I just didn't understand -- why did Mary Jane go along with Harry's plan to torment Peter? This is never addressed in the movie. Harry threatened her, but why not tell Peter that Harry threatened her? Even if she felt that she had to put on a show to keep Harry off her back, why not let Peter in on it after the fact?
Okay, so if I have so many complaints why did I like it? The above complaints are fairly minor actually. I mean, we're not talking about an indie film or a romantic comedy, we're talking about a summer big-budget popcorn movie. Expecting a big-budget popcorn movie to spend time on building relationships is a big thing to ask, so while I would have liked to have seen more of it, I'm not surprised that it isn't there.
So what did I like about the movie? First of all, I was surprised by how much I liked the Eddie Brock plotline, and I mean all of it. I have to provide the caveat that I. Can't. Stand. Venom. I like the concept well enough, and I think that the character has a lot of potential, but it is rarely realized in the comics, and Venom is a character that is incredibly easy to write lazily. And so he's been written INCREDIBLY lazily over the years.
But Raimi really makes me like his version of Venom. First of all, the decision to cast Topher Grace as Brock was outstanding -- Grace played the character with the right mix of obnoxious slime and blind obsession to make Brock both understandable and unlikable -- a tough mix to pull off. You don't really sympathize with Brock at all, but you can understand why he blames Parker for his own failings.
And that's another part that Raimi hit note perfect -- Brock blames PARKER for his own failings. Brock isn't out for revenge on Spider-man -- he hates Parker. The fact that Parker is Spider-man just makes it harder for Brock to get his revenge. What's more, Brock hates Parker not for something Parker did, but for something that Brock did to himself.
On top of that, Brock is not only slimy but obsessive. And not just about his revenge on Peter. He talks about he and Gwen "dating" and acts like she's his girlfriend even though Gwen clearly says that they only had coffee once. He obsesses about getting the staff photographer job enough to fake a picture. And, since Dr. Connors points out that the symbiote enhances the personality of the host, once Brock becomes Venom his obsession with Parker and revenge is equally enhanced. (Leaving one to wonder why his obsession with Gwen didn't also get enhanced -- probably because two damsels in distress would have been too much, even for this movie).
The design for Venom was probably as good as one could do with the character, I guess. I liked the vampire fangs on Brock more than the CGI Venom, but that may be a gut reaction owing more to my visceral dislike of Venom than anything else. Venom as monster works for me -- as long as no one wants to make a movie where Venom is the hero, I'll probably be okay with it.
Besides the surprise of Eddie Brock, I quite liked the Sandman as a character too, though there wasn't as much there as I would have liked. Thomas Hayden Church did a good job with what he had, and he looked remarkably like the character from the comic books. The CGI for the Sandman was really impressive as well, not just in detail but in choreography. The image of Sandman pulling himself up out of the particle accelerator and the giant sand creature at the construction site -- both were very well done and fun to watch. Much better than the Venom CGI, which was mostly 'meh', though the scene at the end with the symbiote in the cage was nicely done.
My one plot complaint is related to Sandman and an old one -- the obsessive need to tie villains to the hero's origin. Was it really necessary to make Flint Marko the "real killer" of Uncle Ben? I know that Raimi was looking for something to push Peter into wearing the symbiote despite the dangers, and wanted a baser emotion to latch onto, but couldn't he have gone for something other than revenge? Maybe jealousy? Peter deciding to wear the black costume because of Harry's mind games with MJ maybe? I mean, it worked in the movie, but it's a trope that really gets tiresome in superhero movies.
And finally, I liked the intro of Gwen Stacey into the movie world even if she was hardly in the movie except as an object of jealousy for Mary Jane. Bryce Dallas Howard does a decent job with what she was given, though unfortunately she wasn't really given all that much in this movie. I'm sure that since there is apparently going to be a Spider-man 4, Gwen will show up again. Interestingly, Mary Jane and Gwen seem to have reversed roles in the movies from their roles in the comics -- in the films, Mary Jane is the girl-next-door and Gwen is apparently a successful model, while in the comics Gwen was the girl-next-door and Mary Jane is the model. I'm not sure that it means anything, but it's interesting.
Overall I liked the movie quite a lot. It's not the best of the series (number 2 gets that honor from me), but it was definitely worth my six bucks. Plus, the previews in front of the movie were awesome -- the new Harry Potter movie looks like it will be intense.
Read More
The movie is really plot-heavy -- three villains, two "love interests" (and two "love triangles" to go along with them), three fairly massive setpiece battles -- there's a lot of stuff going on in this movie and it pretty much doesn't slow down from the beginning of the movie to the end. There are a few quiet moments such as Peter and Mary Jane in the trees watching a meteor shower, or Mary Jane and Harry Osborne cooking, but even the quiet moments are plot-advancement moments -- the movie doesn't really slow down enough to do many pure character building moments.
This is probably the movie's biggest flaw -- it's pretty clear that there's an underlying soap opera story that Raimi wants to tell about Peter and Mary Jane set against the backdrop of Peter's larger responsibilities as Spider-man -- a classic setup right from the source material. But because of the scale of the movie, the soap opera moments get rushed along a bit too quickly. We get the big moments of their relationship struggles, but not the subtle ones. The relationship has to be drawn large and broad to quickly telegraph the problems to the audience to get onto the action, which makes the relationship seem more shallow than it should - almost a caricature of a relationship. It feels like if it had been given some more depth, the relationship failure could have been more natural, rather than the sudden shift that Raimi had to give it to make the movie flow.
Additionally, Raimi clearly wanted to wrap up the Spider-man/Green Goblin story that he's been working on since the first movie. This part felt rushed too -- Harry moving from angry man on a vengeance kick to subtle manipulator wanting to undermine Peter's happiness to ally all felt too chaotic. I can tell that Raimi wanted a big setpiece battle between the new Goblin and Spider-man, and I suspect that he wanted to get Harry and Peter back to being "friends" so that Harry could betray him. And, I suppose that Raimi also wanted a big battle at the front of the movie to get the action rolling. But it still felt off to me -- like Harry should have gone for the subtle manipulator angle first, then moved onto the angry vengeance kick afterward.
Speaking of Harry, there is one element of the movie that I just didn't understand -- why did Mary Jane go along with Harry's plan to torment Peter? This is never addressed in the movie. Harry threatened her, but why not tell Peter that Harry threatened her? Even if she felt that she had to put on a show to keep Harry off her back, why not let Peter in on it after the fact?
Okay, so if I have so many complaints why did I like it? The above complaints are fairly minor actually. I mean, we're not talking about an indie film or a romantic comedy, we're talking about a summer big-budget popcorn movie. Expecting a big-budget popcorn movie to spend time on building relationships is a big thing to ask, so while I would have liked to have seen more of it, I'm not surprised that it isn't there.
So what did I like about the movie? First of all, I was surprised by how much I liked the Eddie Brock plotline, and I mean all of it. I have to provide the caveat that I. Can't. Stand. Venom. I like the concept well enough, and I think that the character has a lot of potential, but it is rarely realized in the comics, and Venom is a character that is incredibly easy to write lazily. And so he's been written INCREDIBLY lazily over the years.
But Raimi really makes me like his version of Venom. First of all, the decision to cast Topher Grace as Brock was outstanding -- Grace played the character with the right mix of obnoxious slime and blind obsession to make Brock both understandable and unlikable -- a tough mix to pull off. You don't really sympathize with Brock at all, but you can understand why he blames Parker for his own failings.
And that's another part that Raimi hit note perfect -- Brock blames PARKER for his own failings. Brock isn't out for revenge on Spider-man -- he hates Parker. The fact that Parker is Spider-man just makes it harder for Brock to get his revenge. What's more, Brock hates Parker not for something Parker did, but for something that Brock did to himself.
On top of that, Brock is not only slimy but obsessive. And not just about his revenge on Peter. He talks about he and Gwen "dating" and acts like she's his girlfriend even though Gwen clearly says that they only had coffee once. He obsesses about getting the staff photographer job enough to fake a picture. And, since Dr. Connors points out that the symbiote enhances the personality of the host, once Brock becomes Venom his obsession with Parker and revenge is equally enhanced. (Leaving one to wonder why his obsession with Gwen didn't also get enhanced -- probably because two damsels in distress would have been too much, even for this movie).
The design for Venom was probably as good as one could do with the character, I guess. I liked the vampire fangs on Brock more than the CGI Venom, but that may be a gut reaction owing more to my visceral dislike of Venom than anything else. Venom as monster works for me -- as long as no one wants to make a movie where Venom is the hero, I'll probably be okay with it.
Besides the surprise of Eddie Brock, I quite liked the Sandman as a character too, though there wasn't as much there as I would have liked. Thomas Hayden Church did a good job with what he had, and he looked remarkably like the character from the comic books. The CGI for the Sandman was really impressive as well, not just in detail but in choreography. The image of Sandman pulling himself up out of the particle accelerator and the giant sand creature at the construction site -- both were very well done and fun to watch. Much better than the Venom CGI, which was mostly 'meh', though the scene at the end with the symbiote in the cage was nicely done.
My one plot complaint is related to Sandman and an old one -- the obsessive need to tie villains to the hero's origin. Was it really necessary to make Flint Marko the "real killer" of Uncle Ben? I know that Raimi was looking for something to push Peter into wearing the symbiote despite the dangers, and wanted a baser emotion to latch onto, but couldn't he have gone for something other than revenge? Maybe jealousy? Peter deciding to wear the black costume because of Harry's mind games with MJ maybe? I mean, it worked in the movie, but it's a trope that really gets tiresome in superhero movies.
And finally, I liked the intro of Gwen Stacey into the movie world even if she was hardly in the movie except as an object of jealousy for Mary Jane. Bryce Dallas Howard does a decent job with what she was given, though unfortunately she wasn't really given all that much in this movie. I'm sure that since there is apparently going to be a Spider-man 4, Gwen will show up again. Interestingly, Mary Jane and Gwen seem to have reversed roles in the movies from their roles in the comics -- in the films, Mary Jane is the girl-next-door and Gwen is apparently a successful model, while in the comics Gwen was the girl-next-door and Mary Jane is the model. I'm not sure that it means anything, but it's interesting.
Overall I liked the movie quite a lot. It's not the best of the series (number 2 gets that honor from me), but it was definitely worth my six bucks. Plus, the previews in front of the movie were awesome -- the new Harry Potter movie looks like it will be intense.
Labels: marvel, movies, not reviews, spider-man
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